Link to MAD TV spoof - Gwen Stefani "Arent Asians Great"

Im not sure what I think about this yet. My initial response is that I was slightly offended despite it being some comedy. However, I also thought it was just ignorant. Most of the comments were about being Japanese and not many other Asian cultures. I guess I just have mixed feelings.

Bobbi Lee plays the oddest roles in MAD TV -- He represents the entire gamut of Pacific Islanders. Aren't there other comics who can also fit the bill? Still, I laughed and felt a bit' disturbed.

I think Bobbi Lee is the "Garrett Morris" of MAD TV. He is one of the first, if not the first, of his culture to be in a late night comedy show. Hopefully, there will be more sophisticated cast members in the years to come. It'll take years to get an Eddie Murphy-type member on those types of t.v. programs. That's why I've stopped watching them as frequently as I used to.

I almost died laughing when I saw it about a year ago.

Lots of the Anime stuff is obessed with Caucasian features. Large, large eyes, super buxom, blonde hair...it is so funny to me that westerners are so into Anime and Asian Pop Culture. Really it is the westerner obessed with the Asian interpretation of the West.


Gwen and her whole Japanese Pop Culture glut was just so hilarious.

I hope this makes sense to you...makes a lot of sense to me, but sometimes things don't translate from my mind and thoughts to my expression of those thoughts.


Show some love if you feel me.


Thanks! :~

You hit the nail on the head when you said that westerners are fascinated with their stereotyped view of what asian culture is. I think a lot of the problem revolves around the fact that most westerners do not know a lot about any asian culture. The two who have had the most impact on the west are china and japan, but even so I feel people tend to homogonize their two cultures into a generic "asian" culture...and all the other groups tend to get swept up into that collective stereotype.

I feel this is somewhat complicated by several issues. First is that most people are not comfortable simply asking about the cultures of others, because cultural and racial identity are such sensitive topics in the United States (I can only speak for here, as I only know here).

Second, is that I've known a number of asian-americans who do not necessarily have an "asian" cultural identity, so cannot explain "their" culture because it isn't "theirs!" For the reason given in the previous argument, people stop asking because they aren't sure if the person actually identifies with their ethnic cultural identity.

In one kind of extreme case, I knew someone who was first generation, could speak almost no Vietnamese. Her parents, spoke no absolutely English. She basicly couldn't communicate with her parents due to lack of a common language, but lived in their house and was raised by them her entire life.[Edit by="mvhudnall on Mar 19, 12:54:32 PM"][/Edit]

I dont understand about the vietnamese girl who spoke no vietnamese and her parents not knowing any english. If her parents raised her, how could that happen? My dad's english is horrible and my Chinese isnt very good either, but we understand each other. I grew up in the same house and if he said "it's time to eat" in chinese, of course I know what he said. I heard it every single day since I was born. There must be something else that happened in the family. Was the child separated from her parents earlier in her childhood?

I was shocked and confused by that also. It was someone in one of my classes a few years ago so I don't have the opportunity to find out more. At the time it seemed a sensitive subject and I figured I should get to know her better before probing deeper. So, most of what I'm going to say is pure conjecture...but I think not far from accuate in her case.

My guess is that she was not conversationally fluent, but spoke some degree of Vietnamese. Just think about the level of conversation most parents have with their children prior to and during elementary school ages. Generally children are told what to do and not to do, but explanations are brief or non existant as to the WHY.

For this reason I can see it as being entirely possible that she was never really talked to as a child, and therefore does not really speak or understand more than basic commands in vietnamese. Teachers of English Language Learners have a particular phrase for this, but at the moment it escapes me. Its the opposite of dual literacy.

So she may have had no real foundation in Vietnamese prior to entering the public school system. Then she enters the education system and is provided with ELL support systems and a social immersion in an english speaking environment. It works like a charm, and now she's chattering away in english at home, and the parents can't understand a word of it. They love her, and can still communicate enough to conduct an efficient household, but they suddenly feel like they no longer even understand their child anymore, or have any way of truly communicating with her.

So yes, she understands "get the pot out of the cupboard", and "flush the toilet"...but would she understand a more complex discussion of politics, religion, or culture? My opinion is no. She would have needed to study the language or continue to have relationships with vietnamese speaking people of her own age as a child, youth, and on into adulthood in order to be truly fluent in that regard.

From her tone of voice during the conversation, there seemed to be some level of distain and conflict between her and her parents and their culture. She stated that self-identifies as an American, rather than a Vietnamese-American. I think this may have played a large part in her lack of ability to speak Vietnamese. She simply didn't want to. She avoided hanging out with vietnamese kids in school, made a point of not learning the language, and tried as hard as possible to be a part of the mainstream counterculture movements of the time to PROVE herself American, and to have that identity. It was in part an act of rebellion against her parents, but was also a desparate a search for identity.[Edit by="mvhudnall on Mar 20, 1:03:47 PM"][/Edit]

The story still confuses me. I cant have major conversations in Chinese about politics with my family, but normal everyday talk (BICS for those of us who had to do all that CLAD stuff), it shouldnt be a problem. I dont understand the Chinese news when it's on TV and my mom translates it from academic Chinese to simpler Chinese so that I can understand it. If she's at home, I doubt they're having major political conversations in vietnamese.

I am so happy to be combing through the mountain of information this forum allows and to stumble upon this one, today.

I am currently attending the Seminar at Millikan and went to the Huntington Library and Botanical Gardens this past Saturday with Prof. Lynne Miyake. We were learning about and discussing Japanese literature and she was an amazing fount of knowledge. she was also just a wonderful teacher. She brought in tons of realia to show and pass around. Many of the books she brought in to share were in the manga form. Someone asked about why the characters were so western looking. Her reply was one I was not expecting to hear.

She said that the main reason for the characters having "western" styling is due to the extreme forms of beauty being portrayed. In Japanese society, big eyes have always been a desired attribute. The blond hair helps to differentiate characters to otherwise look so similar. She said that she asked a friend of her who was immersed in the area of art and literature and he says that the Japanese do not find the styles of the women western. When they see the art they see Japanese. He also said that the reason we seem to find it so western or Caucasian is due to our obsession with race and our highly racialized perspectives.

Interesting, right? I was taken aback and have been reflecting upon it for about a day now. I agree that in our society we are very conscious of race. How can we not be? Race is at the core of all of our power relations in this country.

Ideas?

That is a very interesting issue that you bring up. Not just about our racial sensitivity but also about what is seen as beauty. It is interesting to me that beauty in the Japanese literature had round eyes and blond hair, not because that is "western", but because of the idea that they value something as beautiful when it stands out or is unique. Often times in American we value beauty as the most perfect form of the norm, but in the Japanese literature it was the blond haired women that stood out, because she was different, that was valued. I believe there is a good lesson in that for individuality. Perhaps if we were quicker to embrace each others differences and what make us unique. Then we wouldn't be so quick to separate ourselves in to groups of people who look like us and act like us (racial and social-economic status groups).

Very wise points you make.

It is the unique that is eye catching. Beauty is very cultural. I agree that a celebration of differences is central to any kind of creative process and evolution of ideas to greatness.

In the same class, we were discussing the two main forms of Japanese literature, poetry and prose. After just beginning my studies of the poetry, and engaging in discourses about it, I see that they relish the unique and fresh ideas toward the mutually understood core. Every poem could be looked at as a riddle to figure out or a puzzle to unlock.

Thats how i feel about differences. We are packages so similarly, yet it is the uniqueness with us that creates the magical. I think it could be very Japanese, indeed, to search out that fleeting image and momentary beauty.

As an Asian American myself, yeah, i was kinda entertained by Bobby "owning" the stereotypes, but overall, i guess i felt kinda disgusted. It just feels like the same old baloney when it comes down to asians in the media. If you want to see a documentary that will knock you off your socks, go watch "The Slanted Screen".

As far as beauty is concerned, there are certain features that are actually universal! There is a book called "mean genes" written by UCLA professor Jay Phelan that really gives sociologists and people who believe that "beauty is cultural" a run for their money. Don't quote me, but from what i remember, he had done experiments that showed that people found women with lighter skin and bigger eyes more attractive, across cultures.

Nevertheless, I would argue 2 different things, one sociological, the other philosophical/out there.

Sociological: "Internalized Racism" is when a person/or persons internalize the idea that white / western features are the norm for beauty as a result of messages from media, film, etc. This becomes strange for Japan though, since most of the media they see are Japanese so....

Personal Theory: I think the Japanese may have some kind of longing to be Western? Like an inferiority complex? Without me sounding like a racist, they just seem to LOVE typical white americans. Having lived in Japan for 2 years, i know what its like to be a "celebrity". I had lots of cool privileges and star treatment, but had i been a white american instead of an asian american, my my, I'd be a young Tom Cruise.

Controversial, yes. Funny, well that depends on your sense of humor. Social commentary, sure why not. But the stereotypes being conveyed are not only westernized perspectives, but also in many cases special cultural characteristics of East Asians. Mad t.v. may be spoofing Gwen and her dancers, but it may also be celebrating the differences between cultures.

I have to agree. It wasn't funny. It just seemed really stupid. I couldn't even finish watching the thing. I stopped halfway so I don't know how it ends. I've yet to see a good sketch on Mad T.V.

wow - lots of information, but I do have some comments.

First of all, the MAD TV spoof - well, you just have to consider the source. Inasmuch as they were making fun - it is a spoof - I would say the people they are making fun of are those who know little/nothing about Asian cultures and draw conclusions anyway. In that light, yes, it has some humor. My concern is, that those who view MAD (i.e. high schoolers) may not be able to make that distinction, and so just laugh and repeat. In my classroom, it always seems the rude things that students say to each other sometimes, which are ridiculously irresponsible at best, are blamed on MAD TV when I take them to task on it. And I do take them to task, believe it.

Second, about the controversy with the Viet Namese student who spoke no Viet Namese with parents who speak no English. That happens more than you think. I have friends who speak English only, whose parents speak Spanish only. However, 37% or more of the Spanish language is non-verbal gestures. I can have a conversation with someone using just gestures, sometimes. Point is, you can't really make a judgment about the situation because there are so many other factors involved, not the least of which is the conversations they have in private. In this particular case, it sounds as though the student has some issues with her culture that she dislikes, and is trying very hard to fit into mainstream American culture, whatever that is. So, even though she SAYS she speaks no Vietnamese, if she is standing there, fed, dressed, and cared for, obviously she doesn't do that all herself. There has to be some interaction with her parents, however adolescent, petulant, denial-oriented, etc. it is.

Third, as to race issues. As I'm sure most are aware, there is no scientific, specific definition or evidence of the concept of race. It is a way for humans, usually those of the dominant culture, to differentiate between themselves and others who are different for whatever reason. Race does not fit into any other context but categorizing. I make certain to teach that to my students every year, and reteach them to use the word 'culture' as much as possible, instead. Right now, the word 'mixed' keeps showing up in the classroom, because the 'mixed race' students are sought after and considered desirable. No idea how that developed, as I was discussing with another teacher recently who is only 40, and said that since he was mixed race, he was always on the outside. He has no idea how it happened either, but there it is. Point is, once the 'mixing' of 'races' happens to the point where we cannot recognize obvious differences, I'm sure humans will come up with another way to categorize. (it's on a sperm level, remember?)
I have to say that one thing I am sorry to see diminish is the cultural differences - ways of looking at the world, music, dance...shoot, even food is now called 'fusion' cuisine. That saddens me because of all the really beautiful things there are that different cultures have, and I haven't even gotten to see them all yet!

Fourth, we go round and round on this beauty thing. I think Joseph Campbell wrote something on it once, because I remember reading about it YEARS ago in an Anthro 101 class. In any case, he said that even in the most untraveled areas of Africa, the albino babies were considered to be spiritually above all the rest because they were light. This in a place which doesn't have much to do with blondes. I think perhaps humans are just fascinated with the fair, blue eyed, light hair thing. They are recessive genes, even in Sweden, so maybe it is unique, etc. when one makes it through. I was reading in National Geographic 2 months ago that redheads are considered an endangered species because the last stronghold for redheads, Scotland, has pretty much started producing children with blonde or brown hair. Apparently the red gene has to be somewhere in both parents' lineup, so the chances of to brownhairs having a red are slim.
When I went to Japan in 2001, I went with some of the other teachers to this area that was frequented by youth. We wanted to get an idea of what Japanese youth were into. I didn't really have any expectations, but we had hamburgers and lemonade at a VERY busy restaurant there, and most of the kids were wearing jeans, boots or running shoes, t-shirts, and their hair was cropped and varying shades of light brown. It was the exact same uniform I'd seen in England, Mexico, and downtown LA. I don't think it's a specific look that is considered beautiful, I think that everyone wants to identify with everyone else. It's like the newspaper article I read about Avril Lavigne having her OWN style. Oh, please. Her and several million other girls. I don't know what to make of it yet, but it is kind of scary when you think about all the 1984 type novels - why DO they want to be all the same?

The Mad TV spoof is certainly one-dimensional in its satirical look at Asian culture. But it also satirical in its interpretation of music videos in general and Gwen Stefani in particular. As a Persian, I am capable of laughing at satirical portrayals of Iranian culture. But of course, this is partly because I have been an American citizen so long I am probably pretty well “Americanized.” The reaction of Asian observers is indicative of the fact that the use of satire is often cutting and unrestrained. It can certainly be hurtful to those who see only meanness rather than humor. I think the use of this video to spark discussion among adults could be most useful and beneficial in the area of race relations. But I would never show it to my middle school age students, they are just too young and immature to understand it. Nevertheless, it is interesting to see such humor and even more illuminating to read of the different reactions it inspires.

Gwen Stefani set herself up for this spoof. She once called her Japanese dancers her accessories. It just goes to who that many Americans are still stuck on orientalist conceptions of the East. We've been exoticizing the Orient since before Marco Polo and we continue to do so. I think the spoof is funny and tend to find ethnic humor funny because it is honest in its offensiveness and makes us face our own prejudices up front instead of lying to ourselves that they do not exist.

I saw the clip, and I too was somewhat offended. Bobbie Lee has made is living playing numerous Asian characters, men and women. My most favored is also from Mad TV, where he portrays a worker in a nail salon, trying to describe a certain man "He look like......a MAN !) It is so embarrassing to laugh at what we all know to be a sterotypical character, but perhaps allowing Bobbie Lee to act as the character, allows us to laugh with him as against him?