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Message from tsprague

I finally read Lisa See's On Gold Mountain--it really does cover 100 years in her Chinese American family. The memoir alternates between California and a small village in China, so you learn about two cultures, really the mixture of those two cultures. It was neat to hear some California sites mentioned--like the french dip place in Los Angeles, Phillipes! It's still there. The protagonist of the story, Fong See, is a Chinese man who originally comes to LA to find his father (who came earlier to work on the railroad). He becomes a merchant, selling initially women's lingerie, and eventually moving into antiques imported from China. He marries a Caucasian woman who came to him for a job in his shop. Though Fong See and Ticie (the Caucasian woman) are in love, have five children, and are married for several years, ultimately, Fong See decides he cannot stand how much power Ticie has in the family, and in the business: he wants to be in control. So, he marries a Chinese woman, has five more children, and then marries another Chinese woman later. The amazing thing is that Ticie accepts Fong See's actions, calling it the Chinese way. Despite Fong See's and Ticie's love for each other, their different cultures ultimately end their relationship (although both, according to the great-granddaughter writing the story, continued to have affection for each other--is this truth, or wishful thinking on her part?). A great read, but wow, there is specific detail--a perfect read for a history buff, especially one interested in local history.

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Darlene: I also think that the film missed the nuts and bolts, the specific training, of the geisha that the book details. But I didn't mind the backstabbing between the geishas because I think that the backstabbing is a part of the "nuts and bolts" of being a geisha. If someone outshined you, stole your clients, then your livelihood was threatened. And I would imagine that you only had a limited time to be the "most celebrated geisha", so you would need to do anything to keep that position. I'm with you, though, the cinematography was spectacular!

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Message from babrown

So, should I read the book before the movie? I was at Borders today and I can't believe how many books are out there from/about Asian countries. I don't know where to begin reading. Any suggestions?[Edit by="babrown on Jan 4, 2:13:51 PM"][/Edit]

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Message from cashb

My son and I went to Borders in Torrance and found a Chinese to English, and English to Chinese Words, Phrases and Expressions text for a very reasonable $18.95. They also discount for educators. Chinese Dictionary, Words, Phrases, & Expressions, Published by Research & Education Association.

The emphasis is on spoken Chinese but I really like the appendix that includes family terms, weights and measures, and traveler phrase tips.

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Message from cashb

JuWei and I found a good book to practice Chinese characters. 250 Essential Chinese Characters, for everyday use. Published by Tuttle Language Library, Author: Phillip Yungkin Lee. This is a reasonable $19.95 (less the teacher discount they give you at Borders).

JuWei and I thought we would use this for character practice with the elementary students. It also has quizzes for every 10 characters it teaches. I found that to be very convenient.

I know that I will benefit from this book so I am sure that the children will as well.

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Message from cashb

Making Connections, Enhance Your Listening Comprehension in Chinese, by MadeLine K. Spring, published by Simplified Character Edition. Borders has this one for $39.95. It is a little more expensive but it has lessons on things like:
· Greetings
· Family
· Dates and times
· Hobbies
· Visiting friends
· School life
· Shopping
· Talking about the Weather
· Transportation
· Dining
· Library skills
· Directions
· Birthday party
· Doctor visits
· Dating
· Renting an apartment
This list is about half of what is in the book. As you can see, this one is great for school lessons.

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Message from tbarbarossa

Hi, thanks for the tips. I was going to watch The Joy Luck Club again since I love that movie and haven't seen it for a while. Appartently, The Red Lantern deals with similar themes but is particular to Los Angeles, which does interest me very much, so I will watch that one too. I've been to Chinatown a lot since it's not far from my house. Yang Chow is a fabulous restaurant and if you ever need Chinese herbs for health reasons, try the huge pharmacy on Broadway. (Don't remember the name.) My daughter and I paid big bucks for lots of wonderful cleansing herbs for making teas, tried them twice and couldn't continue the treatment. I'm afraid the taste was too acrid and memorable, but I'll bet they would have done the trick.

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Message from tbarbarossa

Oops, I mean Light the Red Lantern! The book sounds wonderful too.

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Message from tbarbarossa

Hey, Rebecca, I guess you're still in the system. Great! Have you read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man? This is colonialism at it's worst, i.e., corporate takeovers of governments secretly or not too secretly backed by US government, in South America. The book is terrific -- lots of insights. One particular image remains of the author's viewing of a wonderful water puppet show in Indonesia. The book is very popular. Happy New Year!

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Message from tbarbarossa

Happy New Year, Dan. I was wondering about this most recent of Amy Tan's books. Is it as interesting as Text? What is the underlying conflict? Have you read all Tan's books? Oh, for more time! I am just now getting to the forums.

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Message from tbarbarossa

I guess you already answered my question in your review, but in so many of Tan's books, it seems the clash of two diametrically opposed cultures and how the heroine deals with the issues of self-worth all the while balancing everyday life make the books captivating to read.
To experience the depth of emotion along with the characters from another cultural point of view should surely help all of us to grow in cultural understanding. I know many of my Asian students find balancing two cultures at once---especially one that is so intrusive (in-your- face, Madison Ave., reality-show consciousness) very difficult. I wonder what effect this kind of constant battle will have on their futures and the future of America?? [Edit by="tbarbarossa on Jan 6, 1:30:00 PM"][/Edit]

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Message from tbarbarossa

What exactly does "Americanized" mean? Is that succumbing to the Madison Ave. exploited view of reality: designer jeans, hip-hop music craze, fast food? I think we need to explore the parameters of what "Americanized" means today? It's not the same when we grew up, of course, but the definition of what an American is is constantly changing, even more so in this age of global media. To be Asian in America can be seamless or not, depending on the individual experience of reality. In our school we see the conflicts and clashes of culture, but the mix of cultures defines a new culture of reality that allows more interpretation, more acceptance, I think. These are just some musings on your remarks, not any judgment; I don't mean to be disingenuous or obtuse, but who the hell knows exactly what American is any more?? I know what the "ugly American" is.

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Message from tbarbarossa

I will read this book. I am not only interested in how women find a voice in a male-dominated society, but also in how oppressed people find a way to say what needs to be said through the media in subtle ways. What a fascinating book, I am sure!

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Message from tbarbarossa

Sixth grade? The book sounds like my speed! Thanks for the tip.

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Message from tbarbarossa

The book Saduko and the Thousand Cranes comes to mind. Even though it is simply written with illustrations, it's a fantastic read for 7th and 8th graders, guaranteed to make sensitive souls cry! ( a good release for fragile adolescents!) This book encapsulates the history of Hiroshima through the sad story of Saduko, a runner and an achiever, who dies as a result of the bombing. It's a tradition that if you make a thousand cranes, your greatest wish will come true. Unfortunately, Saduko dies before she and her classmates can make one thousand cranes.

When I contemplate that horrifying decision to drop bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I know America has some serious soul-searching to do, for heinous actions such as these and others too in the name of greed and power. Dropping these bombs was unnecessary since the Japanese had already declared surrender. Where is the justification?

I have some experience with the Peace Statue -- my Albuquerque students and I, with the support of the lady who is largely responsible for raising money to erect the statue and memorialize the children of Hiroshima---Camy Condom (Yes, that is her married name!)---raised money for the statue and also began a pen pal exchange in the early 90's. That was a wonderful teaching-learning experience.[Edit by="tbarbarossa on Jan 5, 7:32:10 PM"][/Edit]

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Message from tbarbarossa

My Asian female students love this book especially. I have two tattered copies that are too worn now to put in circulation. I intend to order a perma-bound copy for my classroom library. I agree with your assessment of this book overall; however, maybe it was the shortcomings of translation, but I found the writing to be prosaic and whiny. I kept wanting to say, "Come on, get a grip, will you? I know that sounds heartless, but afterall, the book is an autobiography, and how does one maintain objectivity ( or even want to since it is a matter of the proclivity of the writer) when spilling out a story of terrible abuse? There is a sequel too -- which I will order as well. Thanks for helping me to see another perception of this story.

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Message from tbarbarossa

Since I have been a Western astrologer for 30 years, this book appeals to me. I only know the rudiments of Chinese astrology and would like to know more. Are there details about the meanings of this ancient art, or does the book just present the historical side of astrology?

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Message from tbarbarossa

Do the characters live in America at all or only in China? I guess Western influence would vary somewhat in either case. Do they live in rural China or in urban areas? What are the western influences? (You don't have to answer these questions, if you're busy. I was just wondering because it would make a lot of difference, wouldn't it?) I guess I'm asking for setting, place and time, especially. Thanks.

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Message from tbarbarossa

How hypocritical of Communist China to ban the movie! What about self-criticism??
It seems, however, that the roots of breeding competition among women in China for the favor of a rich husband may be in the unyielding tenet that assumes the inferiority of women. That's a notion that dies hard anywhere.
Tradition rules, one doesn't ask why. If the new tradition happens to be Communist, then all other ways be damned. Still, those roots are Confucian and/or Legalistic, right? Thanks for the tip--sounds like a movie I'd like to see.

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Message from tbarbarossa

And it is a movie now which has garnered luke-warm reviews. I did like the book; it felt real to me until I realized a male had written the book after considerable research. I think the book is more in-depth than the movie must be. I felt the book was enormously informative about geisha society and one woman's heroic efforts to overcome her abusive past. There are myriads of books that could be classified as Cinderella stories; stories of great struggles with happy endings---most modern-day novels, perhaps.

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Message from tbarbarossa

There is nothing like the poetry of a song to garner discussion in a classroom. This sounds like a great anticipatory set. The book reminds me of a few movie gems I've found on the Sundance Channel or on the Independent Film Channel but don't recall the titles. Do you know of any movies, and their titles, which have been based on Murakami's books? Answer if you have time. Thanks.

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Message from tbarbarossa

I have this book in my library too. Advanced readers usually choose this one and enjoy it because of its "reality." Two other books that are good for middle schoolers are Sue Park's A Single Shard andvMy Name Was Keoko.

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Message from tsprague

In Bound Feet, the narrator is an American in the late 20th Century; her grandmother is a Chinese woman in the early 20th Century--it is called a "dual memoir", we are supposed to be getting both voices, although it is written by the Chinese American granddaughter.

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Message from tsprague

One of Amy Tan's recent ventures is called "The Opposite of Fate: Memories of a Writing Life." I guess it's an autobiography of sorts; it is a collection of speeches she's made, personal experiences with her mother, and interviews. You get a lot of background info on her writing of the Joy Luck Club (and the making of the movie), as well as background on Kitchen God's Wife. I loved the bit about Cliff Notes on her books, as well as internet sites that get everything wrong about her. She also comments on the difficulty of being referred to as a "minority writer", an "ethnic writer", or even an "Asian-American writer." She sees herself simply as an American writer--she does not want the responsibility of representing the Chinese culture. She says that her stories are fictional, personal, and that they don't represent anyone. It's a great read because it gives insight into the mind of a writer.

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Message from tsprague

Another great read from Gail Tsukiyama: it is called Night of Many Dreams, and it is set in China just after World War II. It is about two sisters--one wants to become a traditional wife, but ends up as an actress; the other travels to America. It is an interesting comparison between the two girls' paths (which is paralleled by their mother and aunt's diverging paths: Auntie Go stayed single and ran a business; their mother was a traditional wife). The novel broadened my view of the choices for Chinese girls, even some fifty years ago.

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Message from egant

I stumbled across Murakami last year--
according to wikipedia, the movie Tony Takitani, directed by Jun Ichikawa and released just last summer in the US, is adapted from Murakami's short story with the same title. You can find out more about the movie at:
http://www.ritzfilmbill.com/editorial/synopses/tonytakitani.shtml

and about Murakami at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruki_Murakami.

Also, for a short introduction to Murakami's work, his 2002 collection of short stories, After the Quake, is a short (but excellent) read.

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Message from egant

Over the break, I read Maxine Hong Kingston’s China Men, a weaving of legend and legacy into a fibrous nonfiction narrative. It wasn’t so much about what facts I could remember about China when I closed the book (although her chapter “The Laws” was written entirely as a march of Chinese legal history), but rather, that I was made to feel the entirety of Kingston’s history as I read—the confusions, the correlations, the Confucian. It made me remember something I heard back in undergrad about the Jewish diasporic experience as living in all one’s centuries at once, a feeling that Kingston, too, seems to struggle with.
Kingston’s cultural experience is in not only what she says, but how she says it. We’re confused about which generation, which legend, which father, she’s talking about because so is she. China Men’s murkiness is language art.
[Edit by="egant on Jan 13, 5:32:20 AM"][/Edit]

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Message from egant

But more about what Kingston says, because that’s also important. In “The Making of More Americans,” Kingston remembers her cousins:

“The girl, who was older, pointed to her brother and muttered something, and he turned red. “What?” I asked. She said it again. It was his Chinese name, and we could hardly hear it. “Her name is Lucille,” he said. And Lucille was easy for him to say and easy to hear. He was proud to be able to give and American name though it wasn’t his. So, they’d already learned to be shamed by a Chinese name.”

I found this passage descriptive of the pressure to assimilate that forms part of the immigrant experience, and felt glad when I thought of my students singing the numbers in Chinese—that the challenge to this ignorance starts with a simple playground song.

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Message from tsprague

I have just finished Anchee Min's Red Azalea, an autobiography detailing Min's experience growing up during the Cultural Revolution in China. When she turns seventeen, she is sent to work at Red Fire Farm--the work is backbreaking, endless; in addition, relationships with men are not allowed (they glorify personal desires over the group's needs). Min does develop an intimate relationship, however, with her fellow worker, Yan; this relationship causes both women trouble, especially with one of the leaders of the camp, Lu. To me, the story illustrates how it is not possible to regulate personal desire--despite the dire consequences attached to forging a personal relationship, the people in this story do it anyway! Ultimately, Min is selected to go to Beijing, to audition for Red Azalea, one of Jiang Qing's (Madame Mao's) "model operas". In addition to this autobiography, Min has written three fictional pieces: one is called Wild Ginger, a story seemingly very similar to her autobiography; the other two are companion pieces: Empress Orchid and Madame Mao, both of which detail the life of Jiang Qing--her rise to power as the wife of Mao; her "model operas"; her work in Chinese politics. I have not read these pieces of historical fiction, but based on my enjoyment of Min's autobiography, they sound interesting. Min's work is very sensual, pretty detailed in her descriptions of intimate encounters--I'm not sure it would be appropriate for students except at the very senior level. But it is good for teachers wanting more info about China under Mao--and for those looking for an intriguing story!

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Message from babrown

I don't know if any knows about the series on KOCE tonight. The series is titled "Japan: Memoirs of a Secret Empire". It is about Samurai from about 1500 to modern Japan (TV guide)

I am watching the first segment and finding it very informative.

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Message from tsprague

I just finished Bette Bao Lord's Legacies: A Chinese Mosaic, a collection of Chinese voices covering the Cultural Revolution and its legacy, in particular, the protests at Tiananmen Square in the late 80s. Bao Lord was born in China, raised in America, and lived in Beijing in the 8os (her husband was an American ambassador)--so she has a unique perspective. She interviewed a diverse group of people: a scholar and a peasant; a cadre and a petitioner; a long marcher and a returned student. Each chapter begins with Lord's process in obtaining an interview with these various subjects (along with some tidbits about her own family's experience) and then the narrative moves into the voice of her interviewee. The text as a whole presents a culture's struggles--with its members not knowing what to do with their lives, not knowing which way the political system will turn next. In one chapter, one man (who she calls "The Catcher" because he was inspired by Catcher in the Rye's protagonist, Holden Caulfield, in his discontent with society) wants to buy a house, but he fears a possible change in government policy: will the policies governing private ownership change? Will he be able to buy it later if he waits, with the extreme inflation occuring? Lord's tracing of these ordinary Chinese lives show the Chinese people's struggles with tradition and struggles with change--both are difficult for them. A powerful piece of nonfiction, with a helpful Chronology in the front, covering Chinese history from 1839 to 1989. [Edit by="tsprague on Jan 23, 8:31:53 AM"][/Edit]

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Message from eshorer

Very late notice, but in a few minutes there is a PBS documentary called:
1421: The Year China Discovered America?
PBS Jan 23 09:00pm
Limited Series/Documentary, 120 Mins.

Author Gavin Menzies claims Chinese explorer Zheng He reached America before Columbus.

Original Airdate: July 21, 2004.
NOTE: Future Airings:
1421, KLCS Jan 28 01:00am

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Message from scampbell

I drove out to Riverside to see my parents after class on Tues. night. Clayton had mentioned a new book on Mao during his lecture that evening. When I walked in the door, I saw a copy of Mao, by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday (is this the one you were talking about?). My dad said he had enjoyed it--found it in Singapore last summer--not a very flattering portrayal of Mao. He gave it to me to read. He also told me that a friend of my grandpas was used as a source in the book. They grew up in Waco, Texas together. I remember my father telling me that he learned to eat w/ chopstix from the Emporer of Chinas private pilot when I was a kid.
I guess he, (Royal Lenard) was Changs personal pilot. In the book he was a source of info. on the head general for Northern China.

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Message from eshorer

There has been a very nice series about Japan on PBS, with just a couple more episodes to air:
Japanland - The Final Test, KLCS Jan 27 12:00am
Japanland - Mountain Gods and Businessmen, KCET Feb 02 09:00pm
The better news is the DVD and companion book can be ordered here:
http://secure.goldenromonline.com/shopping/karinmuller/order.htm

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Message from scampbell

I saw the american version of this movie with Jennifer Lopez and Richard Gere with my dance class. I didn't think that this remake was nearly as effective as its Japanese counterpart. The Japanese version (english sub-titles), draws you in. Anyone who has ever taken a dance class--is sympathetic. It is funny as well as sensitive. I did enjoy this movie.

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Message from gmzarou

Definitely Japan's most famous film, possibly it's greatest film, The Seven Samurai (Akira Kurosawa, 1954) has been analyzed, explained, and discussed by many in the last half century. It would seem almost redundantly redundant to attempt such an appreciation today. And yet, as an experiment in discussion boardery, (and in order to fulfill the requirements of the course!) my mother and I will venture such a feat right now.

Enjoy.

The film takes place in and around a small village in medieval Japan. It is a time of decentralized authority when warlords ruled the countryside. One of the villagers overhears a group of bandits planning to attack and loot the town. He and the rest of the village decide to hire some down on their luck samurai to defend them, and three and a half hours later. . . well maybe you haven't seen it. The plot should sound familiar as it was the inspiration for The Magnificent Seven. But there's so much more to Kurosawa than the plot.

It's the way he tells the story. It's true that Japan's film system was freer in a way than the American one at the time, allowing him to really be the true auteur, but he also had such attention to every detail of the film. Each bird noise was orchestrated, the amplified hoofbeats. When the movie begins, it is dawn. You can tell that every shot is completely planned.

One of the earliest shots that stick out at me is the first time you see the villagers it's a direct close-up of two female behinds. One woman is sobbing and moaning, the other is trying to console her. I think it's a perfect example of Kurosawa's ability to make films that are both hilarious and emotionally dramatic, often simultaneously.

Mom?

-m@x

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Message from zarooum

Well, I think you're oversimplifying. Yes, the movie is very funny and also very moving, but I think that that's because of the director's mixture of pity and contempt for his characters. And remember this isn't the first time we see any villagers. The first one is when Monzo pops out of the weeds a la Bugs Bunny. Are we supposed to laugh at these huddling hunched-over weaklings? Or are we supposed to feel bad for their plight? I think Kurosawa does both.

And you're right about the shot-planning. Just look at all the deep focus composition shots. (that's when both the foreground and the background are in focus) Always with the principal speaker up front, and the response coming from behind. Beautiful.

Right away I see ways to use this in the classroom. Because Kurosawa was so fascinated with this "Unsettled Period" there are many cultural details you can use the film to illustrate. For example, every man in the movie wears his hair in a topknot. This is a samurai style (I've heard it was supposed to make the helmet fit better) and some of the men have shaved part of their head, some haven't. The ones with completely shaved heads are the priests, they have renounced society. When we first meet one of the two main characters of the film, his first action is to cut off his topknot, which would have been shocking in the period, and resonant with 50's Japanese audiences. To show the kids what a big deal it is, direct their attention to the faces in the crowd (all in focus of course) all around him. Then a priest comes and shaves his head.

You could use this scene as an introduction to the period, and then lead into a discussion of what a samurai was, how they were always in the employ of a lord, how important honor was to them, etc. Then you could go into the time period, and how lords were dying and leaving samurai to find work any way they could.

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Message from gmzarou

Totally. In fact, this would have been the first time in film samurai were shown as hungry and seeking employment! Japanese audiences would have reacted to this, as I'm sure American ones did as our cowboy myths started eroding in modern westerns. And I'm talking about Clint Eastwood and Sergio Leone, not Brokeback Mountain or Deadwood. (speaking of which, just what kind of analogy would you draw to today's kids? Maybe a gangsta rapper coming out of the closet? but I digress)

You can use the difficulty the peasants have in hiring the samurai (the way they are treated, either the samurai is insulted and thrashes them or he's pathetic and useless) to illustrate how profound this shift in social hierarchy was at the time. Also, throughout the film, the hairstyles are all chosen to reflect social position. This was an era with a regimented caste system, and it's difficult to make our students understand that concept.

You mentioned the crowd. Did you notice how the second samurai just slips in? He's one of the crowd, then the other actors in the shot one by one leave until he is alone in the frame. Just to make sure you noticed him.

It's a fairly tired cliché to use European medieval knights to explain samurai to children, and furthermore not too many of our students grow up with stories of Lancelot and Guinevere anyway. I think a movie like this, that so clearly shows (in acting, costume, and hair) the day to day life of a period in time can be valuable for students.

But you can't show it all. Maybe we should just pick and choose snippets we could use in the classroom.

tag you're it,
m@x[Edit by="gmzarou on Jan 28, 6:43:37 PM"][/Edit]

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Message from zarooum

That's fine with me, but if you're going to keep pointing out the cinematography, I'm going to have to respond. You're not the only one who's taken a class you know.

Kambei refers to himself as a "ronin" which literally means "wave-man" or "one who rides the waves" but which figuratively means, as we all know from the Robert DeNiro movie, a lord-less samurai, forced to work. Hearing a character say it puts an associated image in the child's mind with the vocabulary word.

I also think they might be interested in the boarding-house scenes, with their wooden beds, leaky roofs, and communal fires. It serves, to some extent, to show how the cities of Japan were in this era. The other (always shirtless) residents are coolies, laborers in the city, and the contrast between them and the "country-mouse" rural peasants could be useful. Finally, the crux of the first act, when Kambei is convinced that he will help the farmers, occurs when one of the coolies points out that the peasants are paying the samurai in bowls of rice, but they themselves are eating the inferior millet. A nice illustration of different crops popular in Japan to an audience unfamiliar with millet. Wretched as they are, they are giving their best and taking the worst themselves. Not only does this illustrate something about Japanese cultural values, but it adds more fuel to the pity/contempt question. Kambei's opinion of the villagers is clearly changed, but is Kurosawa's? The very next scene shows Manzo back in the village, fretting about his daughter when the samurai come to town.

Anyways, I was thinking that if you could figure out a way to show all the different classes represented in this movie without throwing out your lesson plans for a week, then you could break the class into groups to write and perform skits where students were laborers, farmers, samurai, etc. explaining each's social position, lifestyle, clothing, etc.

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Message from gmzarou

Another favor Kurosawa does us in the boarding-house scenes is give us a sense of how dark it must have been. Of course, he does that with many giant expensive lights, but nevertheless we are transported back to a world lit by fire. Even during daylight (if it isn't raining) there is very little light inside the wooden house, and at night the only light source they have is burning oil in a brazier. This might bring the era to life for students.

Another scene that does that, while explaining a lot about samurai culture, is the one that begins with two samurai (we can tell because of the costumes) who seem to be angrily gardening. It turns out they're using their swords to make fake swords out of bamboo for a mock duel. There is very little dialogue as the two men size each other up, and it seems fairly faithful to how much posing and little actual swordplay made up a medieval Japanese duel. Anyway the two men strike (what would have been) fatal blows at the same time.

Or do they? One of the men is certain he has won, for even though he wasn't the first to strike, his was more powerful because his opponent had led with his arm. The better samurai spotted this, and was able to wait and hit much harder. Since it was a fake duel, he could afford to be hit. You can replay the action the DVD and see that this is actually what happened, albeit in the blink of an eye. Anyways, the loser is unconvinced and demands satisfaction. In a real duel, he is killed. And here, just as he did earlier with Kambei's killing of the thief, all of a sudden Kurosawa puts the action in slow motion as the body falls to the ground.

I think our students, especially the boys, will have their interests piqued by this scene, and it once again accurately portrays aspects of samurai. Honor, skill over style, the sin of pride, etc.

akira my mastah,
m@x

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Message from zarooum

Once the samurai reach the village, we get more of a sense of village life.

Because of the townspeoples' filial piety, all of its ultimate decisions are made by a blind old patriarch known as the Grandad. When we first meet this character, he tells of a previous time when the samurai were in power, idolizing these brave defenders of right. We see the town alarm that is just a hammer and a piece of wood. We see the father-daughter dynamic, as Manzo tells his daughter Shino that she must cut her long beautiful hair and pose as a boy, a shame as great if not greater than a samurai cutting his topknot. Incidentally, the townspeople disapprove of Manzo's actions because he is thinking about his needs over those of the village. And in Kikuchiyo's anti-samurai rant, we learn about the darkside of the heroized warriors and their tragic taking advantage of farmers. Just more details we can use to illustrate the period.

Incidentally, I'd seen this movie years ago and before watching it this time, I wondered if the acting in the film would be too overwrought for students to take seriously. Shino wails and beats her breast when she is asked to cut her hair. Kikuchiyo screams and spits and rails. Even laughing at the jokes seems to go on too long. But after this viewing, I think the acting works only because the cinematography is so grand as well. In every scene, in every shot, the visuals match the power of the performances. Yohei and the rest of the villagers would seem to be overacting in any other setting, but against a brilliantly composed deep focus wide shot of the town, it seems to be just right.

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Message from gmzarou

I know exactly what you mean. When Kikuchiyo, a character who has been little more than a clown and a drunkard for the whole movie, bursts out with this heartfelt monologue in an off-kilter helmet and armor that doesn't fit, it should be over the top. But instead, thanks to Kurosawa's beautiful trading off between close-ups on him and reaction shots of the other samurai (and of course due to Mifune's incredible performance), it is appropriate for the situation.

Speaking of, even though every shot is breathtaking, they are not "art for art's sake." Every scene drives the story. It's as if he figures out what he needs to explain to move the story along, and then makes it as beautiful as he can.

So we haven't talked about the love story at all, between Shino and the rich kid Katsushiro. At first it's just a kind of puppy love romp but as they grow fonder their relationship raises some issues that might be valuable to discuss with students. Shino is a peasant farmer and Katsushiro is rather wealthy. She could marry above her station but it wouldn't be right for him to marry down. I see all sorts of Language Arts parallels to stories we teach. And if he wouldn't marry her, he could take her as a concubine but we get the sense he probably couldn't afford to support her. So if they were to, ahem, consummate their relationship she would in effect be ruined for any other man in this society.

That's what makes Shino's panting, supine, almost accusatorily seductive pose in the flowers so shocking! Remember a kiss couldn't be shown on Japanese movies until well into the American occupation after WWII because it was seen as something that should be confined to the bedroom.

I think it could be used as evidence that certain narrative structures transcend cultures.

Also, sociocultural issues as a way of understanding society and/or culture.

thoughts?
m@x

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Message from zarooum

I think the love story's okay, but the guy is kind of a wuss. It's interesting, did you notice that there aren't a lot of point-of-view shots in the movie? Not like in a Hitchcock or something. But the character who has the most P.O.V.'s is Katsushiro, the young lover. Is Kurosawa trying to make us sympathize with this character over all the others? Or is this character representative of some sort of model of virtue in Japanese medieval culture?

I also like how the director is able to change the speed of the action on a dime. He's always moderating the pace to adjust the emotional weight of a scene. When the samurai charge off on their raid of the bandit-town, there's that weird moment with Rikichi's doomed wife. Did you notice the Noh flute? And almost as soon as I remembered I noticed her movements, slow and deliberate, where the slight turning of the head could speak volumes.

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Message from gmzarou

You wanna talk music? I counted five, count 'em, FIVE leitmotifs in the movie: bandits, peasants, samurai, Kikuchiyo, and Shino. They waft in and out, always furthering the story. Sometimes, like right after the mock duel where Kyuzo kills that other samurai, they'll be in a minor key. It's like the Brady Bunch. Bwanh-bwanh-bwadaaaanh.

By the way, just who are the bandits supposed to represent? I mean, I guess they're supposed to be warlords, but they seem more like ronin who have just decided to band together and live off the fat of the land without their lords, a sort of outlaw class. And at the end, during the final battle, they start to become human, when in so many adventure films the bad guys are just this faceless evil mass that needs to be killed. We eventually see they are as wretched as the farmers. Every actor, from bit player to star to extra standing in the third row, is in character and acting their hearts out.

So maybe they're more like the cast-offs of the warlord society. Ignoble samurai.

hmmm,
m@x

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Message from zarooum

Yet at the end, the fallen samurai lie in the same graveyard with their fallen farmer comrades. You ask who the bandits represent I wonder who the peasants represent. Perhaps in 1950s Japan the average moviegoer would watch this story of a group of average farmers working together to reconstruct their lives after being defeated by foreign invaders and seen themselves? But then Kurosawa plays a dirty trick and shows us that the peasants are exactly as Kikuchiyo says they are. That they have secretly been hoarding all along. So what's he saying? Is it pity or contempt?

Who can say? I'm off to bed.

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Message from scampbell

Book C-SPAN 2, just had a conference from Cambridge, Mass. on:"Mao:the Unknown Story".
The show was moderated by Harvard University, Center for Human Rights Policy Director--Michael Igntieff. Co-authors:Jung Change and Jon Holliday, both spoke and fielded questions from the audience. A number of interesting topics were discussed. Jon spoke of paradox in China. As PERSONAL freedom seems to be increasing, POLITICAL control is tightening(for instance, it bothers him that western counties have sold China the technology needed to control the internet in China).
Jung Chang spoke to the fact that the selection of leaders in China is completely secret.
This book has of course been strictly banned in China. Any foreign magazines carrying reviews of the book were either not allowed in the country, or like the London Economist Review Magazine, was sold with the page of the review of the book ripped out.
Jung spoke of being raised in a country where Mao ruled through a 'cult of personality", using a combination of terror, deprivation of information and leader worship to keep firm control. She remembers a song that she and other children sang:"mother's close, father's close, but neither is as close as Chairman Mao". She said that this combination of brainwashing and fear kept them under his power.
There was some talk of how (as we learned about in our last class session) the communists didn't really do much as far as fighting the Japanese.
A piece of info. I had never heard, was that Chiang Kai Shek didn't destroy the Red Army in exchange for his sons saftey--who was being held hostage by Stalin in Russia!

clay dube
Topic replies: 1894
Topic Posts: 604
Message from Clay Dube

I just wanted to cheer the two of you for your lively debate, please take on other movies as well. I think the he said, she said back and forth would work with students as well. One could readily offer them multiple reviews of the same film, including reviews with their origins in languages other than English (see Asia Pacific Arts http://www.asiaarts.ucla.edu for some of this on Chinese, Korean, and Japanese films).

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I am responding to a previous post about Shall We Dance. I had seen the movie a long time ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I found it interesting how the repressed businessman was experiencing frustration with his life (mid-life crisis?) and then sees the beautiful dance teacher and decides to take lessons. What really intrigued me was that it was not the typically hollywood story where the dance teacher and the businessman fall in love at the end and live happily ever after.

I really enjoyed this film. Then I heard there was going to be a remake with Jennifer Lopez and Richard Gere. Yuck! I haven't seen it but I'm sure the hollywood version would not give this story justice. The actor in the Japanese version plays the awkward and shy businessman with so much vulnerablility that you see that it's more than learning to dance that is happening with him. Richard Gere? He's not shy, vulnerable or any of the above.

Sometimes when hollywood finds a foreign film and remakes it it works. "The Ring" for example, was a huge success in the U.S. although many have told me the Japanese version is better.

Sometimes when hollywood remakes a foreign film it's awful. La Femme Nikita was an awesome French film that turned into a ho-hum melodramatic drama called "Point of No Return".

See the Japanese version of Shall we Dance, you will not be disappointed!!

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Message from privera

I also haven't seen the American remake of this film. I just assumed that there was no way that it could even come close to the original.

I saw the original a long time ago and I really enjoyed it. I thought of the movie just recently in one of our class lectures. The lecturer mentioned the Japanese work ethic that dictates that men stay at work for at least 10 hours a day (even if they are not really doing any work) and after that go out with their co-workers for drinks. This remained me of the film and how it appeared that the main character was only home to sleep and then even that seemed only to be 5-6 hours.

Little did I know that the enjoyable film taught me about Japanese gender and corporate culture.

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Message from dockerman

Found an interesting article on "Memoirs of a Geisha." The actresses went to "geisha boot camp" for six weeks before they started filming.
Some of the facets of being a geisha:
To play the shamisen instrument, they have to pluck thin silk wires that are painful on the fingertips. They press their fingers into bowls of ice to numb the nerves, eventually their hands become callused.
They wear thick-platformed sandals that lift them several inches off the ground, and the footwear is cantilevered beneath the toes that results in a concave area that complicates the balance. The sandals virtually hobble you.
The Geisha wore their hair pulled into tight buns. The hair was pulled so tightly that they went bald in the center of their heads. They had to sleep on blocks, because the hair cannot be undone on a nightly basis. Nowadays they use wigs.
The ribage is cinched by an obi. The middrift is wrapped very tightly with cords that cut into you. The obi is very heavy and you can only sit in a certain way.
Todays geishas are not expected to sell their virginity. When their career is over they go on to teach or marry, and lead sociable lives.
Interesting!

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